The Truth about Print and Prosper Cost of Ink Claims

[#1]

(Update: In the time since this post was first published, HP delivered its official response about the Printing Costs of HP Printers.)

I've been watching the Kodak Print and Prosper ad campaign
unfold during the past few days. In one commercial, it stated that "The world's
most expensive liquid isn't found in the Middle East" -- a playful jab at the
rising cost of oil, but an unfair swipe thrown at competitors regarding the cost of ink. I couldn't help but set the record straight from my perspective.

1. We've been down this road before, and it's
   very misleading.
   Don't take it from me, see what PC Magazine, PC
   World, Engadget,
   and others had to say about this cost of ink hype
   (it earned a "Worst
   of 2007" label from PC Mag).
2. Do the math. 
   Milk
   is more expensive per gallon than crude oil. So is bottled
   water. I personally understand that I pay for quality when I buy a
   cartridge that delivers up to 72.9 million
   possible color combinations and can deliver photo
   prints that last for more than 100 years.
3. Times are tough. We can help.
   No gimmicks here. We understand that for many customers cost per page is a
   serious purchase consideration. Our take is you should score some serious
   savings without sacrificing our legendary
   print-at-home quality.  That's why last
   year HP introduced XL
   cartridges, Ink
   Combo Packs and Photo Value
   Packs.  (You can go here to
   learn more about easy ways to
   save money and continue to get
   lab-quality prints at home. ) In addition, we've made it simple for you to
   access literally hundreds of free printing projects you can customize and print
   at home - whether you need a greeting card and calendar or a professionally
   designed flyer or a full-blown marketing kit for your small business, you'll
   find it at the HP Creative Studio.

For 25 years, HP's been proud to deliver leading innovation,
unparalleled customer support, and to be the top-ranked printing brand in the
industry according to customers and media alike. We'll keep working hard every
day to bring you the quality, value, and reliability you expect from us --
today, tomorrow, and for a long time to come.

Got a question or comment? I invite you to send it my way.

Angela LoSasso manages HP's Creative Wiki and HP's Small Business Wiki. You'll also find her on Twitter.

[#2]

I have been a faithful customer of HP products for 15 years, But I will never buy another HP product.

The "date code" on HP ink jet cartriges is an unfair marketing scheme, the likes of which I have never seen in the USA before. Shame on HP. I will do every hing in my power to seek revenge.

[#3]

Bill –

Thank you for taking the time to submit a comment. And I thank you for being a faithful HP customer for 15 years. I hope that the information I’m about to share will give you some context and important facts to consider about your HP printer.

1. Most HP ink cartridges do not have expiration dates. Of those that do have an expiration date, most can be overridden.

2. Of the small percentage of HP cartridges that do have an expiration date that cannot be changed, it’s there to protect your printer and ensure quality output.

3. Printers and printheads can be adversely affected by air ingestion and evaporation. In printing systems where the ink supply and printhead are separate, older ink can affect the printhead and the ability to deliver ink. The expiration date prevents this from happening and protects the investment you made in the printer itself.

Again, out of all the cartridges HP produces, only a handful of cartridges have ink expiration dates and those expiration dates actually help protect your printer and print quality from adverse effects.

You can see which cartridges are affected, which expiration dates can be overridden (and how) and read more about ink expiration here: www.hp.com/.../InkExpiration.html

Again, thanks again for your comment

Angela LoSasso, HP

[#4]

There's a reason Kodak's message is appealing. If consumers weren't bothered by their inkjet experiences, the message would fall on deaf ears. Considering the issues with printer drivers that are not resolved, and the overwhelming response to Kodak's marketing affordable ink, I think HP would do well to pay attention and revamp their products and marketing strategy than explain away someone else's marketing.

[#5]

I read your comments, in no way did you state your ink prices are competitive. My experience is that HP printer software consumes tremendous resourses on a home computer. I have instructed all my students and clients to be aware of your processing overhead, high prices for supplies, and your printer quality is low. No wonder HP is called Hipe.

[#6]

Hi LU – Thanks for your comment.

The intent of my post is to share the facts about Kodak’s misleading claims – facts and findings from independent and respected technology experts such as PC Magazine, PC World, and others that you can verify with the click of a mouse.

HP listens very carefully to our customers' feedback and suggestions. Last year, when customers asked us to help them save on costs without sacrificing the outstanding quality and award-winning product features they want and expect from HP,  we introduced XL cartridges, Ink Combo Packs and Photo Value Packs that lower the cost per page with no loss of quality.  

HP also introduced many top-rated printers that not only include standard features such as color displays, built-in Bluetooth, direct CD/DVD printing and double-side copying, they also use individual ink cartridges – you change only the color that needs replacing.

I don’t think you’ll find those features on any Kodak printer. And I certainly didn’t see them featured within the Kodak “cost comparison”.

In my humble opinion, you’re attracted to the sizzle, but you won’t be enjoying a steak.

In 2009 alone, HP printers have won 45 awards. In the recent best printer roundups from respected technology reviewers such as CNET, PC World and others, nine HP printers were recommended.

None of Kodak’s printers were.

As I stated above, we’re working hard every day to bring you uncompromising value and quality –and we’ll continue to do so.

Thanks again for taking the time to share your thoughts.

Angela LoSasso, HP

[#7]

Hi Bob:

Thanks for your comment.

You're right -- I didn't state that our ink prices are competitive. I figured readers would prefer to see that fact explained and verified by independent and trusted sources such as PC World, PC Magazine and others. You can use the links in the post to click through to the various reports.

Thanks again for sharing your thoughts.

Angela LoSasso, HP

[#8]

great review.

Robert Resendez

htttp://www.computerbros.com

[#9]

Hi Angela,

Did you see the new page at HP.com which discusses the Kodak advertising campaign for their inkjet printers?  I'm an employee of HP, but I think most people will find it to be a solid response.

Bret Bottger, HP

[#10]

hp your rubbish

[#11]

Its all a con I run a small bussiness and use ink every day

Its sometimes cheper to buy a new printer than an ink refill

You sell printers cheap and then hoold the consumer to ransom

[#12]

HP 02 XL packs vs Photo Value Packs vs Combo Packs vs Single Cartidges

I have a C6180 and love it.  It prints amazing photos and is a great printer, but I really get frustrated at the ink games HP seems to play.

Can you please explain the differences between the different cartridges?  At face value the photo value packs seem to be a drop dead obvious better value (I have so many 4x6 sheets of photo paper that I could care less about the paper), but generally the Photo Value Pack which comes with each of the 5 color and 1 black cartridge + 150 photo sheets is generally $35.  The combo pack is generally about $60.  The only difference appears to be that one is nearly 2x the price and doesn't include photo paper.  

The guy at Office Depot told me that the photo packs have less ink in them.  Is that true?  How can you tell?

HP should really make is easier to tell the truth about this.  I was curious, so rather than doing my normal $35 photo value pack purchase, I bought the combo pack.  I can't tell any difference in the cartriges, they look exactly the same to me.  I feel like the Office Depot guy scammed me at this point.

Some boxes (most) don't show any ink capacity at all.

Some boxes show the ml of ink in each cartridge.

Some boxes show the # of pages you are supposedly going to get from that cartidge.

Why can't HP put the ml of ink for each thing so you can get a true comparsion of the cartridges and figure out for yourself what the real best value is?  If you don't want to print it on the box, you should at least make this information available in the online product descriptions.

Can you please tell us what the actual ink capacity in ml is for each of the cartridges in the photo value pack, in the combo-pack, in the individual cartridges, and in the XL pack?

I have seen the XL cartridges only at Sams (which I don't have a membership).  Why can't you get the XL cartriges elsewhere?

If you can sell a photo value pack for $35 that has 6 cartridges in it, why does one cartidge cost $10.  I understand volume discounts, but you are basically giving more than a 50% discount for buying 6 cartridges.  I use the dark colors Black, Magenta, and Cyan more than any.  In fact I have about 5 extra yellow, light magenta and light cyan cartridges.  What I would like is to be able to buy 3 cyan and 3 magenta cartriges for $35 so I can catch up with the extra light colors that I have.

Thanks!

[#13]

David -- Thanks for your comment.

I've asked HP Supplies Expert Thom Brown to weigh in on your questions. Here's what he had to say:

The Office Depot rep was correct in stating that the 02 Photo Values Pack cartridges do contain less ink than the standard 02 cartridges found in the individual or combo-packs. The intended use of all HP Photo Value Packs is to deliver a low-cost, lab-quality photos in one easy package (the ink amount is matched to the paper quantity). It is NOT intended to be purchased as an ink replacement pack with free photo paper. So if you’re looking to print a good size quantity of photos, HP Photo Value Pack is the way to go. If you’re looking just to replace an ink cartridge, individual or combo-packs are what you want.

Re: Package markings

Please understand that HP is the ONLY printer company that indicates right there on the package how much you’re getting. Other printer companies have no indication on packaging, and you’re lucky to find information about it on their websites. Unfortunately some of the HP packages you were comparing don't have the the latest labeling. Our new and future ink packages indicate expected page yield. HP believes page yield is a better indicator of what or how much ink you’re buying than ink volume in millimeters. (It’s analogous to buying a gallon of gas, but ignoring the fact that one user has a Prius and the other a Hummer. The Prius can drive much farther on that same volume of gas than the Hummer.)

You can learn about page yield for every supply that HP sells here: www.hp.com/go/learnaboutsupplies.

Look for your specific printer model there, or here’s a shortcut for you:

h10060.www1.hp.com/.../index.html

Your final question about Sam’s Club as the only place to buy XL versions of the 02 cartridges:

Some retailers have exclusive products. And it’s not just HP products, it’s all brands of electronic and consumer goods. Unfortunately that is just how the some retailers operate.

I hope this provided some insight for you.

Thom Brown, HP Supplies

----

David: Thanks again for sharing your thoughts and questions with us.

[#14]

My 2 cents on HP printers is that you build some really great printers, but you also work equally hard at alienating customers especially with the ink jet printers. During my career I have specified a few hundred printers and have over a dozen printers in my office today, everything from an HP8150 w/2000 sheet feeder down to a small ink jet.

A typical example of HP's errors is that our consulting office bought 7 HP3100s several years back. They are a great example of what HP can do. About a year later we purchased a couple of your color ink jet printers. As we went to integrate them into our office environment we found out that they would not work with the 3100s. Eventually we found the problem was that HP had used the same dll names for both printers. HP's answer was that we should toss out the printers and buy color laser printers which didn't meet our requirements.

To solve the problem we had to isolate the ink jets to specific workstations. These were also the same printers which HP chose to put expiration dates on both the ink cartridge and print heads. Since we only needed them to occasionally print specific reports we ended up going out and buying new ink and heads each time. While you maintain that ink gets old not a single rep or engineer could explain why a new head would go bad if not used within a short period. We just tossed the printers and the $1000 they represented out the door.

We never again purchased or specified an HP ink jet printer. When we did the cost/benefit analysis for our customers, the HP name and customer support, didn't carry the added cost of consumables and your malicious expiration dates.

[#15]

Thanks for the response.  I bookmarked this page so I'd remember to check back for a response and was pleasantly surprised to see a reply.

I'll see how long these new cartridges last, hopefully much longer.

As I said, I love my HP PhotoSmart C6180 and have been directly responsible for 2 others purchasing similar (more recent) models.  The only thing that I wish could be fixed is the processes that don't close properly with the XP drivers.  If you do a lot of printing and scanning, you'll end up with tons of instances of HPBOID.exe and various other HP exes.  These don't take up much memory, but when you have 100 of them they add up and you have to either manually kill them or reboot.

Anyway, thanks for the reply.

David R.

[#16]

Hi Robert:

Thank you for your business, and thank you for taking the time to share your comment.

Without being able to gather more information regarding the issues you experienced, it’s difficult for me to give you a solution or to do my best to help make it right.  However, I can refer you to the first comment/response string above on this page and the links to get official HP information on ink cartridge expiration dates.

I can also assure you that I and my colleagues work hard to delight our customers. Please accept my apologies for the difficulties you experienced.

Thanks again for sharing your thoughts.

[#17]

The response regarding the cost of consumables is disappointing at best.   I like the sizzle, but will pass on the steak accepting a burger.  For most day to day work, almost every printer on the market produces acceptable results.  Thus, constant comparison benchmarks aren't overly useful for today's desktop office, kids school work and home needs.   However, ink cost is at the heart of it.   HP's attitude "of we make the best, don't you want that?" is simply out of touch with many consumers.   How about more useful benchmarks in today's economy?  I'm tired of high ink cost - period.

[#18]

Try googling "HP Printer Driver Problems" if you want a true measure of the appallingly bad service, the bloated and error ridden drivers and the shoddy construction currently provided by HP.

In my case I have an 18 month old Officejet Pro 7580 (which has printed a grand total of 3940 pages while consumming 3 XL Black cartridges and two each of every colour cart); when I installed a driver update I immediately lost the ability to scan, copy or fax. There are dozens of accounts of identical problems on various threads. No one has had any luck with HP in resolving the issue and, no matter how many times I have uninstalled the existing drivers (including using levels 1,2,3 and 4 uninstall, and ccleaner) and reinstalled the old drivers, I have an all-in-one which has only one function.

You simply lose credibility when you try to deny that HP is an ink company (not a printer company) or pretend that you do not have a serious problem with your drivers (including apparently insoluble problems with Vista) which you are unwilling to resolve. To add iinsult to injury your "service" techs operate from a script from which they refuse to depart. Even when told, in response to their suggestion that you have already done the check, they insist on simply proceeding by rote and, in my case, when nothing that they suggested worked, they signed off with " I'm glad we could help you solve your problem" which clearly was not the case.

You should assume that this rant is representative of thousands of other completely disgruntled customers.

I should note that the HP financial calculator I bought in 1978 continued to work flawlessly into the 90's and its replacement which I bought in 1986  (simply because the original was now clunky by comparison) is still functioning perfectly (and on its original battery). It is unfortunate that HP is no longer the kind of company it started out to be.